Abandoned Rathole Tunnels

[J-Guy]

Does anyone have a list of the tunnels abandoned on the Rathole when the rebuild occured back in the early sixties?  More specifically which ones are still there, forgotten over the years?

[Butch]

Here are the links to four articles about the "Rathole" from Southern Railroad's Ties Magzaine:
http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1963/63-8/limits.html
http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1963/63-8/daylight.html
http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1962/62-8/cno.html
http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1961/61-12/break.html

As for the current status of the tunnels, here is what I know:
# 1 is still open, but has a lot of roof fall-it's on private land.
# 2 is still open, but has water standing in the north end-it's accessable from the Kings Mountain cut.
# 3 is still open, but the area is posted.
# 4 is still open, and accessable from the lake, if you don't mind the climb.
# 5 is probably still there, but I haven't found it.
# 6 was daylighted, and I haven't been able to ID the exact location.
# 7, # 8, & # 9 are still open, and there is a rails-to-trails proposal for that section of the old line.
# 10 was another daylighted tunnel-I don't know the exact location.
# 11 & # 12 were by-passed, but I haven't tried to find them yet.

Maybe someone else can fill in the gaps, and address the Tennessee tunnels.

Hope this helps,

ba

[E.M. Bell]

#1 is just South of Wilmore. I "think" I know about where it is (goes under highway 29??).

#2 at Kings Mountain is still in decent shape. Been a few years since I walked through it though. There was a large amount of water pooled at the North end last time I was down there, but it was open all the way through.  It has a concrete pad in the floor that made walking easy (except for the mud). One interesting note on this one was the ventalation shaft in the middle. Its still intact, including a giant fan that was still in place last time I was there.

#3 is near the present day CP at Grove, just North of Burnside, off of highway 1247 (where the old Cooper power plant spur comes off the mainline. Its located on goverment land, and fairly accesable. There was a lot of roof fall the last time I was in there, but still in decent shape.  You have to drive the old RofW to get to it.

#4 is the one in the famous picture of the EMD FT units crossing Cumberland river. To reach it, you have to walk Through #3 and on South  on the old RofW about a half mile. you used to be able to walk through it and stand on the old bridge adbutment overlooking the lake.

#5 was at Sloans Valley (I think thats the one) and is located just North of  a trail head on the old RofW. I have hiked into the South end of it, but it was muddy and I was not able to get any further. There is a sign off of US 27 that points to the trail..  there is website for the trail, found at http://www.kyrailtrail.org/projects/cathy-crockett.php

Id love to hike the trail on south of that point, but have yet to do it, and I dont know how much is open . Im not sure about the locations of 6, 7, 8, 9 either, but one of those opened into the valley at Alpine.

#11 is at Parkers Lake, just off US 27. When the road was relocated several years ago, the North portal was covered with fill, but the South portal remains intact. I have hiked to this one back before the road project, and it was in great shape, including keystones at both ends with "CSRY #11" and the date carved into the stone.  This is just South of the CP at Cumberland falls on the mainline.

#12 was somehwere near KD tower, but I have never been able to find it. Lots of dense growth on the old RofW around there.

Im not clear on numbers or locations of most of the tunnels on South of there. There is one near Robbins TN that is still intact but full of Water, and anouther near Sunbright.

#21 is near CW Tower, North of Nemo TN. #22 and 23 are at Nemo proper. You can hike through 22 and drive through 23.  I have slides of a lot of this stuff, If I can ever dig them out of the archives..

[jcmark4501]

Don't forget the tunnels on the old right of way that went down the the old New River bridge. They looked liked they may have been orginally by-passed in the 1910s?

[GP30Rider]

#16 is the one near Sunbright and is difficult to drive through.  There is also one to the west of the double track at Anadel.  The north portal is far down an embankment and inaccessable.  The south portal is caved in and requires a hike through the woods.  You can hike to the north portal at Robbins, but last time I did that, it was about like walking through a swamp.  You can stand over the top of the south portal at Robbins where the road goes over, but you are correct about it being flooded below.  It was my understanding that it was the longest tunnel on the railroad.

[E.M. Bell]

Joel mentioned the tunnel on the old mainline near New RIver, TN.  It is located along a portion of the old CS mainline that comes off the present day main just North of the present day New River Bridge, just South of Hellenwood TN.  Part of the old main is still intact (used to be operated as the  New River Railroad to serve a tipple) down towards the old New river Bridge (which is still partialy standing)  The old mainline has been reloacted at least once to bypass this tunnel, and I am not sure of the bore date or tunnel number (if it even had one) Its fairly short, brick lined, and just looks a lot older than the other abandoned tunnels in the area.  Both portals have collapsed and there is a fair amount of roof fall.

Here is a photo taken in January of this year, showing the North Portal




And here is a detail shot, showing the brick arch and lining, and how it was inserted into the rock face.  





I have been looking through my older slides tryng to find shots of some of the other tunnels I have found, but this is all I have found so far.  The North portal of CS tunnel 23 at Nemo TN.

[cmherndon]

About 1/4 mile or so south of that tunnel near New River is one that has a creek going through it.  From what we can tell, this one was bored to divert the stream away from the fill that the track is built on, almost like how Southern diverted the course of the Emory River.

[E.M. Bell]

I had almost forgot about that one Caleb. When a group of us first explored that area back in the mid 90's, we had much debate as to the origins and use of that tunnel in your pic. It is much to narrow to have ever handled rail trafiic, but I cant figure out why it was bored so tall just to handle water....its a mystery to me.  

The stream there looks like it used to flow down the valley in the exact place the old mainline is now, but it diverts through that tunnel, through that rock outcropping and into another stream bed on the West side...pretty nifty..

[ru1056]

Many moons ago I went out on Lake Cumberland (Cumberland River) and the water level was pretty low. There was an old RR tunnel with "Somerset 1903" written on it. It appeared to be concrete and in pretty decent shape.

We were about 1 mile west from the 27 bridge and I am curious were the other end of that tunnel is.

[Butch]

That sounds like the old US 27 highway tunnel.  Before the lake was impounded, the highway dropped down near the river below Pitman Creek, followed the river, crossed Pitman Creek, and then went through a short tunnel before crossing the Cumberland River and entering old Burnside (under the current Burnside Marina).  If you have been on the lake recently, the point below the new bridge for 90 where the equipment is loaded on barges, is where the old 27 came down.

[E.M. Bell]

Butch is correct. The old US 27 tunnel is West of the Railraod tunnel (and a lot higher up the ridge) than the CS tunnel.  The RR tunnel has a basic rock portal, and is almost at normal lake level most of the time.  

I had a thought last night about the Two tunnels there at Burnside . When they built the new US 27 bridge over the lake, they relocated and widened the road a bit. With all the blasting that was done (some right over where the North tunnel goes under 27) I just wonder how much damgage was done to the tunnels.  Now that it  is cooling off and the snakes are hiding for the winter, I just might have to go for a hike soon down there..

[Southern6482]

I'd love to see some pics of the current state of the Cumberland River tunnels; I always loved the shots popping out of the tunnel and going over the bridge.  Emmett, did I read corrently that some of the pillars are still in place?

[Butch]

Here are a few shots of the old CNOTP tunnels from this summer (some better than others):

The old concrete support for the bridge exiting Tunnel 4:


The south portal of Tunnel 4:


Inside the south portal of Tunnel 4:


The north portal of Tunnel 3:


and some others just for fun...

The north portal of Tunnel 1:


The north portal of Tunnel 2:


The south portal of Tunnel 7:


The north portal of Tunnel 8:


And the old US 27 tunnel, looking towards the marina:


Enjoy!

ba

[E.M. Bell]

Groovy shots Butch! Looks like about the only changes to the Two around Burnside is the amount of trees and growth. Thats the first picture of #1 I have ever seen...and judging by the land around it, its not where I thought it was.

To answer SR6482's question.   The Adbutments on both ends of the old Cumberland River Bridge are still intact, but I have never seen, and Highly doubt, that the piers are still in the lake. The water level gets to low in that area for them to have remained.  I have hiked down (and I mean DOWN) to the South end of the old bridge, which is near the burnside marina, but not much remains except for the concrete. when you stand at the south end and sight across the lake to the tunnel, you realize just how much of a curve that bridge had on it.

[E.M. Bell]

off topic a bit, but the shots of the US 27 tunnel sent me searching. here is a shot of the old 27 bridge over the Cumberland River. The Highway tunnel is  on the left.  Notice the dark structre behind the road bridge..thats the CNO&TP bridge. North is to the Left, South to the Right. Bet the road bridge would have been a dandy place to shoot trains



looking North across the river









On the South side of the river, looking North. The Railroad runs along the bluff in front of you. The old buildings down to the left of the Bridge is the site of old Burnside, now the general location of Burnside Marina. Triva Question..  The CNO&TP was not the only Railroad in Burnside at this time...can anyone name the other one??

[Butch]

Emmett,

Very cool pix!  I have a diagram of the the short track you mentioned that connected the CNOTP to the docks on the river, but I can't remember the name of it.  

Here are three pictures of pictures of the Tunnel 4 RR bridge that were used in a 1909 engineering thesis at UK.  My question back to you is do you what was the device over the tracks in the middle of the bridge was called?







And the famous 1941 pic from that was used on the first cover (March 1947) of Ties Magazine,  the 30th Anniversary cover (March-April 1977) of Ties, and was the center photo in the final issue of Ties (March-April 1982).
The scan is of the 1982 center photo.  Here is the information about the photo from the 1947 issue:

The world's first Diesel-electric road- freight locomotive - Southern 6100 - is shown crossing the Cumberland River Bridge near Burnside, Kentucky. The photograph was taken by M. H. Linn, then a lieutenant, Special Services and Freight Claims Department, who is now Superintendent, Executive Office Building, in Washington.

Taken on September 19, 1941, the photograph was soon recognized by experts as one of the outstanding railroad pictures of all time. It has appeared on the covers and inside pages of nationally circulated magazines and in newspapers.

Charles F. Denny, the fireman shown waving from the cab window, was the son of C. F. Denny, night chief dispatcher on the CNO&TP at Somerset, Kentucky. He joined The United States Marine Corps on May 6, 1944, and was killed in action on Okinawa, June 13, 1945.




ba

[The Idiot Railfan]

Okay, I'm a bit confused Emmett.  Earlier in this thread, you show a pic of your truck going thru, what you refer to as, old tunnel 23.

It was my understanding that this is new 24:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=78984

...and this is current tunnel 23:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=47607

...and in order to access tunnel 23, you need to drive thru old 24.  Am I correct with this so far?  The reason for my confusion is that I swore I saw a "24" on the keystone over old 24 (i.e. the road access tunnel).

What drove the jist of Jonathan's original post of tunnel #'s was when we found an old portal in the east rock cut about 100 yards south from the bridge in my second picture link.  Was this a rail tunnel, or the drainage tunnel that you and Caleb were referring to?

Now totally confused :?:  :shock:  :?:

[Junior]

Butch,
I know i read somewhere or was told that the original tunnels ceilings were not brick or concrete.  Part of the lease agreement with the city of Cincinnati was they to be bricked or concreted.  I notice in some of your pictures they are just rock cut.  Do you know anything about this agreement?

Junior

[Butch]

Junior,

According to the article "90 Years to Daylight" in the August 1963 issue of Ties Magazine - available on Tom Daspit's website at  http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1963/63-8/daylight.html - six tunnels including 3 & 4 did not require lining.  The article doesn't identify the other four.

Actually, the entire website is a treat if you like the history of the Southern (CNO&TP) RR.  

ba

[The Idiot Railfan]

The article that you referred to, Butch, has cleared up a bit of confusion (I think) -

- The tunnel that I referred to as current 23 (the southern portal lets out onto a bridge over the Emory River) is actually 22;
- The bore in the side of the cut just south of 22 is old 23;
- 24 is 24.

Does that sound correct???    :?:

[ru1056]

The CNO&TP was not the only Railroad in Burnside at this time...can anyone name the other one??

Lexington & Ohio.

[E.M. Bell]

To Answer Butch, the device you asked about is called a "Tell-Tale".  Basicly just some heavy strips of roap or leather that dangled down across the tops of trains, used to warn the brakemen that a clearence issue was near. If they where riding the tops of the cars, and felt that "tell the tale" of an approaching bridge or tunnel, they would hit the deck.  Im sure those things have saved a lot of lives. There should have been once located on each side of every tunnel and bridge.

Mark W said  "- The tunnel that I referred to as current 23 (the southern portal lets out onto a bridge over the Emory River) is actually 22;
- The bore in the side of the cut just south of 22 is old 23;
- 24 is 24"

Thats correct. that article did help to clear that up.


The other railroad in Burnside was the Cincinnati, Burnside and Cumberland River Railway (CB&CRRY). Incorprated May, 1890 to provide a link from the CNO&TP mainline to the docks along the banks of the river in Burnside. It possesed 2.7 mile of trackage, and was a subsidiary of the Southern Railway after August of 1905. When the CNO&TP was forced to relocate due to the flooding of Lake cumberland, the CB&CRRY was abandoned....last operations occured in May, 1950.

To RU...there have been Two Lexington and Ohio Railroads in Kentucky, but neither of them anywhere near the location we hafve been discussing.

[Butch]

Emmett-I figured you would get the tell-tales.

Here is another Ties pic that shows the 1963 re-routes that may help clarify the tunnel 22-23-24 discussion (the Nemo section).



And here is another pic of a pic that shows the tracks in Burnside in 1950.  This is from Ghost Railroads of Kentucky.



ba

[The Idiot Railfan]

Thanks for the clarifications, Butch and Emmett.  Those new maps helped.  Looks like I'm going to be doing some more exploring the next time we get up to Nemo...

   

[RMOORE62]

This is an informative thread, thanks for all the good information.

Here are a few pictures that might help visually down at old Burnside.

First pic seems to have been taken on the top of the cliff over US 27 on the north side of the river looking south.  US 27 can plainly be seen directly below the photographer with old Burnside Yard basically in the middle of the picture.  Toward the top right of the picture you can make out the CNO&TP mainline of the day and follow it to the left side of the picture, just before the trussle over the river.  Of course in the middle bottom is the Burnside Ferry.


The second is a zoom in of the Burnside Yard.  Unfortunately the quality is not real great, but you can see a steam engine, a Southern 0-6-0 switcher in the 1500 series.


The third pic is from the North/East cliff looking at the new CNO&TP bridge over the river with the old RR bridge in the background and the Burnside yard over the hill beyond the old RR bridge.  As you can see, US 27 and its bridge had not even been started when this picture was taken.


I hope you enjoy these and maybe they will help you visualize the layout from before and after the relocations.  I have a few more pictures I might try and get posted later, if there is interest.  Mainly pictures of the construction of the new RR bridge, which is kind of off topic since this thread is about abandonded rathole tunnels.